Quote:A recent BBC News story compared two questions, one from a Chinese math test and one from a math test from the UK. The difference was fairly astonishing. Chinese people are good at math to an extent we never imagined possible. And this could have staggering implications in the near future, as China continues its ascent as a major economic power:

    A glance at the two questions reveals how much more advanced is the maths teaching in China, where children learn the subject up to the age of 18, the society says. Science undergraduates in England are likely not to have studied maths beyond GCSE level at the age of 16, it says.

Now see if you can do the problems:



It's a fact: If world power were determined by math skills alone, then we'd already be worshipping our new Asian imperial overlords. But why are Asians better at math? I can only offer one Asian-American's perspective.

Awhile ago, there was a news story picked up by the Washington Post and many other major news outlets. Here's the Washington Post headline: "For Math Students, Self-Esteem Might Not Equal High Scores." The article said, in part:

    The international test results from 2003 and related surveys from 46 countries show that the world's most confident eighth-grade math students are found in the Middle East, Africa and the United States. Of the 10 countries with the highest levels of student confidence, only Israel and the United States scored higher than average on the international test, and their scores were far below those of the much less confident students in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

In other words, even though United States students felt better about themselves, they did worse than other countries (in particular Japan and Korea) in which students thought they sucked at math, didn't enjoy math very much, but scored well nonetheless. Although the article explores the question of whether or not we should even be striving for higher scores if it means a harder-edged approach, I'd like to talk from personal experience, about why there's might be this difference in the first place.

I grew up in a major suburb in New England. Although I went to public school, a good 10-20% of the graduating class went to Ivy League colleges. There was a major Asian population in my school; when I was a senior, one of my honors classes had 15 people, 13 of which were Asians. This is the perspective I speak from, when I give these reasons why Asians are better at math:

1) Their parents - My parents are immigrants. From a cultural perspective, they carried over a lot of their cultural hangups with them when they came here. I had a lot of Asian friends when I was growing up. One common thread that united us, in addition to our Asianness, was the fact that whenever we misbehaved, or whenever we went home with a bad grade, our parents disciplined us. A common Asian story is that when you bring home a report card with 5 A's and 1 A-, your parents will ask you "Why didn't you get that 6th A?" Then next semester, bring home 6 A's, and your parents will ask you "Why didn't you get all A's last semester?" Perfection was the goal, yet always out of reach.

Many of us came from homelife that valued achievement above all else. Our parents immigrated here in search of a better life. Despite considerable cultural and linguistic barriers, they were able to carve out a place for themselves. Consequently, they expected the same sort of perserverance, the same sort of excellence, the same sort of triumph from us, and often they would get it. They certainly didn't blow smoke up our asses.

Oftentimes, when we were young, our parents beat us. It was just a way of life. Sometimes they would get creative and use objects around the house (e.g. a coat hanger). As barbaric as this sounds, many of us considered it a valuable part of our upbringing. It set boundaries for us, gave us discipline, and instilled in us a desire to work hard. Today, we have friends, have jobs, etc. There is no festering mental illness as a result of these beatings; only an occasional fear of coat hangers (j/k).

I think child abuse is a terrible thing. I read A Child Called It too, and some parents clearly have mental problems in the way that they treat their kids. But in American culture, beating your kids, as a general proposition, is strongly looked down upon. Even Tony Soprano doesn't do it, and is ashamed of himself for the one time that he did! There's a difference between child abuse and child discipline. I'm a strong advocate of child discipline is all I'm saying.

Setting boundaries and not being an enabler can only be a good thing. See this video by hilarious comedian Russell Peters for a nuanced treatment on the subject:


(From Youtube user arommendahl)

2) Their curricula are the hardest in the world - As we've already seen from earlier in this post, the expectations levelled on Asian students are beyond compare, in terms of the "hard" sciences and subjects. In Asia, students are expected to shoot for the moon, especially in math and science. Yet there aren't that many that aspire to be poets, filmmakers, or WWE professional wrestlers. Why do you think the most prolific, talented people in those areas come from the United States? Because in America, we try to value those creative aspects of the human psyche as much as any of the others. In China and Taiwan, they value cold, hard skills.

3) Their schools are oppressive, draconian environments from which there is no escape - Some kids here think 180 days/year for school is a lot. You ain't seen nothing. Schools in China and Taiwan are akin to oppressive regimes. School is run virtually year round with 10-12 hour days not uncommon. This in fact is one of the reasons why my parents brought me over here; they wanted me to grow up with schools that would encourage freedom and creativity rather than regimented discipline.

These factors make Asians better at math and science. But does it make them better, holistically speaking?

I think there's no good answer for the question (and let's be honest; it's not a very good question to begin with). In the end, we've seen that Asians are better at math...but they might grow up feeling like their math skills are worthless. Is that necessarily better? I don't think so; I think it just makes us all different.

For every smart, friendly Asian person you encounter there may be another socially maladjusted one. For every good thing that comes with having sky-high test scores, there's something I could point out that's bad. In the end, it just makes us all (whether we're white, black, brown, red, yellow, etc.) different, disparate parts of the wonderful, brilliant tapestry of humanity that are trying to find some kind of peace, some kind of bond, in America.

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i think kasi kapag matalino ung isang tao eh hindi siya nabubully or labelled as nerd. hindi ganun ka rampant ung labelling unlike here in the u.s. if you're a math geek, mataas ang tingin sau sa asian countries pero dito most likely tingin sau eh loser. kaya students from other countries excel more than students here. but of course that's not always the case. :grin:

hahaha!! i can relate to this!! i've heard dat lots of pinoy who were born in phil..den migrated in Canada.....were one of d most intelligent pipol in their class like a frend of mine..she was running for valedictorian!!!i was lyk ..wow.....and then my filipino cousin who grew up in europe and she was telling me dat i was like a nerd or loser jst becoz....i do care so much with my academics, grades, etc....hahaha....i was laughing becoz i dont look lyk a nerd or even a loser...i don't even wear 'eyeglasses thing' seen in movies...hahaha!!! its just dat..its such a shame if i have low grades!! such a turn-off!! hahaha!...weLL i understand my cousin's perception on 'nerd' pipol or 'losers'.....maybe dats just the way they think of!!

sabi nila
pag magaling mag english bobo sa math .. or vice versa ...

maliban na lang siguro kung bata ka pa lang e sa tech school ka na nag aaral ...
e.g
sa mapua bilang na bilang lang ang fluent mag english ( sa napapansin ko ) ... lalo na kung mula pati sa elementary e dun ka rin nag aral ...  bugbog sarado kase mga istujante sa numbers dun kaya sa ibang field kinakalawang sila ..

iba kc magturo mga asians sa kani-kanilang bansa..
parang d2 sa Canada, akala ko mas mahirap mag-aral d2 nung first time ko, yun pala hindi..
mas advance pa nga mga napag-aralan ko sa Pinas kaya kayang-kaya...
then dumating yung honour roll ceremony..
pag tumitingin ako sa mga honour roll students, kadalasan asian (mostly filipino)..
mapa-born man d2 or sa Pinas..
in general, they are most likely the ones who are serious in their education, majority of them..
unlike in other races..
only a few of them succeed...

tama nga kayo, sa atin, mataas nga tingin nila sayo pag matataas grades mo..
d2 kc inaayawan nila kadalasan mga ganun katalino..
syempre, pag may matalino kang kaklase, ie-expect nung teacher na kailangan more lesson..
ang iisipin nmn ng iba they're waaay behind kaya ayun, they cant keep up..

It has everything to do with focus. There are these particular kids that focus more on education than socializing. These people understand how important education is to their lives that's why they sacrifice their time,effort and image for it relentlessly and passionately. Unlike other people who are focused and concerned very much in socializing and pleasuring themselves that they forget the very reason why they go to school in the first place.

(01-02-2008 03:38 AM)dominicuz Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.sabi nila
pag magaling mag english bobo sa math .. or vice versa ...

maliban na lang siguro kung bata ka pa lang e sa tech school ka na nag aaral ...
e.g
sa mapua bilang na bilang lang ang fluent mag english ( sa napapansin ko ) ... lalo na kung mula pati sa elementary e dun ka rin nag aral ...  bugbog sarado kase mga istujante sa numbers dun kaya sa ibang field kinakalawang sila ..

i kinda agree. may nagsabi na rin sakin nito. hindi ko rin alam kung bakit nagkakaganyan na kapag medyo bano sa english e genius sa math

saka totoo, mas maikli yung time ng pag aaral sa ibang bansa. 5hours or so. ang late na ng pasok nila ang aga pa ng uwian. and then a family friend wrote to my mom saying na mas mahirap daw yung education dito sa pinas kaysa australia.

masyado na talagang advance. kahit dito lang saten. minsan may naencounter ako na gr.4 ay may algebra na. pero simpleng simple lang. pero imagine, nung gr6 nga ko wala ako maalala na nag algebra kami. mas lalo pang nag eevolve at nagiging dynamic ang education dito sa Pinas

(01-02-2008 07:14 PM)beaHHH Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.i kinda agree. may nagsabi na rin sakin nito. hindi ko rin alam kung bakit nagkakaganyan na kapag medyo bano sa english e genius sa math

saka totoo, mas maikli yung time ng pag aaral sa ibang bansa. 5hours or so. ang late na ng pasok nila ang aga pa ng uwian. and then a family friend wrote to my mom saying na mas mahirap daw yung education dito sa pinas kaysa australia.

masyado na talagang advance. kahit dito lang saten. minsan may naencounter ako na gr.4 ay may algebra na. pero simpleng simple lang. pero imagine, nung gr6 nga ko wala ako maalala na nag algebra kami. mas lalo pang nag eevolve at nagiging dynamic ang education dito sa Pinas

may kakilala nmn ako, friend ko, magaling siya sa math, pero di sa lahat ng subject..
sabi ko nga, pano siya papasa kung isang subject lng ang kayang-kaya niya..?
kumbaga sa tug-of-war talo na yung nag-iisang math sa ibang courses...
pero at least pumapasa nmn siya when it comes to average..

tama..
mas maikli hours sa skul d2..
gulat rin nga ako nun eh, kc sa pinas, 4 am pa lang gising na ako, ang 6 am nasa skul na ako,, tapos 8am magsisimula, then 5 ng hapon matatapos..
d2 nmn sa states, 9 am nagsisimula, tapos 3:30 pm natatapos..
but usually we only have one hour each classes, and an hour for lunch..
i think the reason for that is, there's a daylight saving time d2 sa canada, kaya minsan ayaw nilang maaga pumapasok yung, madilim pa lng sa labas..
kc pag winter the clock backs up for one hour, so when its suppose to be 7am nagiging 6am..
eh d2, lalo na sa winter, 3pm pa lng nagsisimula ng magdilim, so they dont wanna end up finishing up at 5pm which is, very dark na, and its not safe for students to wander around when its dark dahil dami sasakyan...

di nga alam ng ibang race kung gaano kahaba ang oras ng eskwela sa pinas, pero di pa rin nila sineseryoso ang pag-aaral nila d2...

that reminds me..
before i left Philippines, nag-aral muna ako for 2 months after pasukan, kc paalis na kmi ng august 1..
yung mga lesson namin talagang mahihirap lalo na sa math..
2 kinds ng mathematics ang lesson namin araw-araw..
may geometry class, at may advance calculus..
i remember, sa calculus, solving a very short equation, and it always ends up in a  very long resultant..
di ko kc ma-imagine, how a monomial ends up in a resultant of more than 15 polynomials..
lahat kmi ng mga kaklase ko nagrereklamo sa sobrang haba..
buti na lng mabait yung teacher.. lol..

damn hindi pala ako asian kasi mahina ako sa math !!!